What're Oppo's Thoughts on Pontiac Fieros?

"way2blu does a rev update" (way2blu) 11/03/2020 at 11:40 • Filed to: Pontiac Fiero, Fiero, Ferrari, Fire, Pontiac

0

59

I’m assembling a short research project & video about Fieros. Specifically, I am analyzing some of the inherent quality issues that led it to gain a poor reputation for safety & reliability.

That said, I’ve never even sat in a Fiero in real life, and could use any pointers available on where to learn about the car and its background. I know we’ve got some Fiero enthusiasts on Oppo so I’m very interested to hear what you all have to say.

Re-posted for the morning Oppos to see!

pip bip - choose Corrour > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 03:25

0

meh, only ever seen a few ratty ones as they were never sold here in Australia

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > pip bip - choose Corrour 11/03/2020 at 03:31

2

There's a dead one in a field closer to town. And it has the RHD conversion. There were a few done in Oz by a private importer using a Volvo steering rack (240?) but there were other methods apparently. There's still a Fiero owners club in Oz too.

Tripper > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 04:01

4

I like em but they’re mostly all clapped out or have self destructed. Went apple picking a few weeks ago and saw a mint one, so refreshing. 

onlytwowheels > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 06:34

4

I bought a 1988 Fiero Formula new. It was not a great car, it was not a terrible car, but it was my worst new car purchase. The dealer experience ampl ified that, due to their inept service. There were so many issues with the car during the first 7 months, that the car was at the dealer more than in my driveway.  I bought another car just because of this, and the Fiero became my 2nd car. I sold it after 3 years and only 14k miles.  I was done with it..... 

Long_Voyager94 > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 06:50

6

My only experience comes from my friend’s 400 small block swapped Fiero.

It was obnoxiously loud, obnoxiously quick, obnoxiously hot, and obnoxiously fun.

10/10 would recommend based on that experience.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 06:52

3

I don’t have much first hand experience, but I had a buddy who was really into them. Their greatest strength AND weakness was that they were GM partsbin cars. If you read about the development, they were meant to be cheap, efficient, but also sporty. Translation - all show and no go. So most of the parts bin stuff came from the bottom of the bin. But, its not hard to bolt on other, better GM stuff because GMs are like legos.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 07:12

1

Check out Ronald Finger’s amazingly well-done Fiero restoration series on Youtube!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 07:47

3

Everybody rags on the Fiero.... for not delivering on its promise of “affordable mid-engine sports car”.

But, that’s not actually what GM  promised. It was a well-priced “economy commuter car” and GM sold the absolute shit out of it the first couple of years. But, in typical GM fashion, those cars suffered in quality and reliability.

Sadly, the later builds were better, but sales declined even with the performance and quality improvements. The guys that love these cars adore the last two model years. With a V6... or the inevitable swapped V8.

Was it as good as a later MR2? Nah. But it was still fine for what it was.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 07:57

3

FWIW, the "quality issues" were relegated to the earliest run of first year cars. After that they weren't poor quality. I own an 85 and a rusted, leaky gas tank is why mine is down right now. But the rest of the car works great, all things considered.

skimaro > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 08:33

2

LS4 swap 

interstate366, now In The Industry > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 08:48

2

I got a 1988 GT (arguably the most desirable Fiero) for free last year, but it’s sat for too long, at least 15 years, for it to be fixable within my skill level. Hooked a battery up to it, and it wouldn’t crank, plus some electrical issues. I’m not sure what to do with it yet.

shop-teacher > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 09:07

1

I think they're really cool. I'd love to build one up for rallycrossing. As for it's reputation, early on they had some issues with fires. While that problem didn't persist throughout production, the reputation did.

CobraJoe > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 09:21

1

All I really know about them is that doing extended work on the engine will strain your back and possibly your knees too.

Leaning over the trunk to get to the engine is not the easiest way to rebuild the top end of an iron duke.  

rctothefuture > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 09:33

5

I’ve owned several and can tell ya what you want to know.

I’ve owned an 84, first year Fiero run. They were 4 cylinder units with either a 4 speed manual or a 3 speed auto. Pontiac wanted an affordable mid-engined sports car, but GM wouldn’t approve it. So they switched gears and made it a “safe and economical sports car”. It was designed to compete with the Fiat X1/9, EXP and eventually the MR2.

The issues with quality are subjective. The reason the 84 Fiero gets crap is due to a smaller oil pan being installed and the car running low on oil. That would cause the the crank to snap, spewing oil over the exhaust as it shot out of the engine starting a fire. It was quickly rectified, but 60 minutes ran with the story so ya know...

They were impressive feats of technology. New chassis design with “screw on and off body panels” mixed with GM parts bin. The front is Chevette, the rear is Citation and it still handles surprisingly well. They installed Fiero specific seats with speakers in them, which were pretty trick as well.

I highly recommend watching the video below from their production.

ibRAD > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 09:35

2

I hate it and I love it. (not mine)

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/barrie/87-fiero/1531721001

For Sweden > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 10:03

1

They’re good Fieros

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager94 11/03/2020 at 10:20

1

I would not be in a position to criticize your recommendation.

way2blu does a rev update > rctothefuture 11/03/2020 at 10:58

2

That was a really interesting video. The fact that the “drill-and-mill” machine got implemented for this probably saved a lot of human errors from happening. The spaceframe -> mechanicals -> water seal test -> interior order also sounds awesome.

Did your ‘84 (or any other ones you owned) have any notable defects from the factory or any long-term issues? It sounds like it should have been well ahead of other GM products of its time in terms of quality.

way2blu does a rev update > interstate366, now In The Industry 11/03/2020 at 11:01

0

Does it have the manual or the automatic? I’ve heard the ‘88 model year got a much better suspension design too. Do you have any posts about it or pictures?

way2blu does a rev update > onlytwowheels 11/03/2020 at 11:02

0

What kinds of issues cropped up? I’m very curious now.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 11:20

1

They are sick. Have you seen Ronald Finger’s Fiero Restoration series? It’s great, very detailed, funny, and honest. 

onlytwowheels > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 11:23

3

The first issue came the day after I bought it. The steering rack started making a noise. Dealer diagnosed, new rack was ordered. Two weeks later, rack came in and was installed, incorrectly. Needed to be removed and installed following day. Next was an issue with sound sys tem. Dealer removed and replaced head unit, damaging console in process. Next was a paint issue on hood. Apparently there was a small nick upon delivery that was touched up, which was now bubbling. Dealer body shop repainted, while in their shop, body putty got on the seat and there was over spray on the front bumper. Next up was a noise up front that turned out to be a loose bumper. Next was the fuel gauge/sending unit. The car ran out of gas 2 lines above E. The two front tires would slowly go flat when parked for weeks at a time. The car was vandalized twice, one time it was kids throwing rocks, the next it was egged. The rear wing was stolen one night, causing damage to rear bumper and right rear quarter too. The alternator started to whine, the exhaust developed a leak, the body panel would crak and pop, the car died in the middle of an intersection and there was a recall due to risk of fire........

J ust off the top of my head.

CaptDale - is secretly British > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 11:38

2

I had an 1987 Fiero a few years back. It was a lot of fun. Thankfully with the V6 and the getrag 5 speed manual the car was a lot of fun to drive around. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The interior was worn a bit and dated. I did spruce it up and put in a 90's GM head unit that allowed for iPod connectivity while still looking factory which was a nice upgrade. I did some engine bay upgrades while the sub frame was out for a clutch job. It was over all a very good car and I would own one again. The main problem with the car was it had its issues and at the time I was too broke and without enough guidance to really understand where money into a car is important. But such is life. I think they make a great enthusiast car whether young or old. I would highly suggest anyone looking at Rad era mid engine cars to consider one of these.  

My one regret is never being able to do the 3800 SC swap into mine. That seems to be the perfect power to weight ratios for these. 

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > rctothefuture 11/03/2020 at 11:43

2

Huh, I didn’t think of it as an EXP competitor. I didn’t think anyone thought it was worthwhile to compete with EXPs.

Chariotoflove > interstate366, now In The Industry 11/03/2020 at 11:50

1

I’d wondered what became of that project. Sorry to hear. 

way2blu does a rev update > ibRAD 11/03/2020 at 11:54

3

An actual PISA Jalapeno. Wow.

If that was listed in the USA I’d be seriously tempted to check it out.

Chariotoflove > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 11:54

2

I remember reading something about this car suffering from GM putting the iron duke in it, and it was not right for this car. I don’t know if that’s a legit critic or even  if I’m just remembering incorrectly.

ibRAD > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 11:56

1

I just thought it was a PISA work that some guy came up with in his garage. Now I have to look into it further. My employer thanks you.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 11:57

1

Look at the similarities on the front end. The similarities end there.

way2blu does a rev update > Chariotoflove 11/03/2020 at 12:02

2

From reading I’ve been doing, it sounds like the Iron Duke had to be fitted with a smaller oil pan to fit in the Fiero. The car wasn’t designed for that motor, but it was the cheapest option from the GM parts bin at the time and mandated from higher up in GM.

Less oil capacity and quality control issues with the connecting rods (a pre-production study cited 1-4 out of every 10 connecting rods manufactured had defects) led to frequent rod failure and resulting engine fires.

This was fixed in the first few months of production, but the Fiero was already selling really well. Pontiac sold over 136,000 that year, and many were sold before the connecting rod defects were resolved.

The Iron Duke is about as underwhelming as an engine can get too; 91 horsepower from 2.5 liters is pretty weak.

ranwhenparked > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 12:02

3

Unpopular opinion, but I’m not a huge fan of the facelift that everyone raves about being such a huge improvement. I think the original version looks much lighter and cleaner and does a better job of aping the Italian and British wedge sports cars the designers were going for.

You can't argue that the new suspension, V6 option, and reduced engine fire problems weren't all genuine improvements, though.

way2blu does a rev update > ibRAD 11/03/2020 at 12:05

2

https://www.pisafierohq.com/

They have 4 (four!) other kit car designs on the Fiero chassis too. Their website is unchanged from 2004 but still active. I’m intrigued too.

VincentMalamute-Kim > interstate366, now In The Industry 11/03/2020 at 12:10

0

gah! No friends with more skill? Or nearby Oppos to help you out ?

GoodIdeaAtTheTime > CobraJoe 11/03/2020 at 12:12

1

Take the engine cover off and sit in the trunk :) easiest way to work on them

GoodIdeaAtTheTime > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 12:19

1

I have dumped obscene amounts of money into Fieros from 1996 until about 2018. I have owned well over 100 at this this point, some drivers, some parts cars. Certain parts are getting hard to find. There is a rather massive community dedicated to the cars. Some parts have been recreated, GT tail light covers, GT quarter windows, etc. My favorite engine swaps will be the 3800 supercharged, as it is easy, reliable, well documented and can be done in a weekend if properly prepared. My favorite car I owned had a twin turbo Northstar - it bolts up to the factory transmissions due to the share d 60 degree V6 bell housing pattern. Biggest issue to look for today is frame rust. And they rust . I had an 85 split in half. Check the battery tray and trunk corners, if rusted, the frame rails are most likely rusted as well, it can be fixed if you are dedicated enough. a s good cars are getting expensive.

CobraJoe > GoodIdeaAtTheTime 11/03/2020 at 12:19

0

That would have been a good tip.  We would have had to clean out all the parts we were keeping in the trunk though.  It was one of those “revive someone else’s failure” type of projects. 

Poor_Sh > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 12:34

1

Sadly this song says 82 Fiero which didn’t exist... but I like it.

rctothefuture > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 12:47

4

The way they built Fiero’ s implemented changes down the line at GM. Some believe it was GM cooking their engineering costs into Pontiac. If the Fiero succeeded, then they wouldn’t lose cash. If the Fiero failed, they could write off the loss and then borrow the “drill and mill” technology for other new vehicles down the line.

So the issue you’ll see with Fiero’s is the GM parts bin. Most common failures are the headlight motors, ignition switches, radio, engine mounts and oil seals. Mine needed new headlight motor gears (factory are plastic, they sell brass kits that last forever ) and I would constantly fight timing cover leaks. The Iron Duke is the same engine you find in a mail truck, so it’ll last FOREVER even with little maintenance.

The Fiero was ahead of GM’s other products at the time. It was Pontiac’s last big swing to separate themselves from their sister brands and make them stand out. The hype over GM making a Mid-Engine vehicle was huge, as it was believed to be the stepping stone for the C4 Corvette as well.

The problem was that it was never given a full budget to really stand out. Pontiac put all of it’s money on the space frame/ body panels and really had nothing left for the interior, drivetrain, and suspension. That meant folks were expecting a “Porsche Competitor” found themselves with a key like a Silverado and an interior sharing parts with the Citation and the exhaust note of a Chevy S10.

I could go on for hours about how they originally designed it for a V8 and to be a Corvette killer. How Pontiac wanted to use the SD4 engine but couldn’t get GM approval. How they made a 2nd gen that blew anything else on the market out of the water but never released it. It’s truly a sad story, like a poem with no ending. 

rctothefuture > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 11/03/2020 at 12:48

2

I don’t remember if it’s in the video I linked or another, but they have the Fiero lined up with the X1/9, MR2, and EXP. They claimed the EXP was only a competitor due to fuel economy, 2 seater configuration, and “Far out there” styling. They then proceed to bash it into oblivion.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > rctothefuture 11/03/2020 at 12:50

0

Yeah, the only information I’ve heard about the EXP and LN7 were that they were steaming piles of shit.

Shoop > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 12:50

0

They're old and shitty, which means by definition Oppo loves them. 

rctothefuture > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 11/03/2020 at 12:54

2

The EXP was interesting because it was just Ford taking the rear seats out of an Escort and proceeding to call it a new model. Some believe it was to compete with the Fiero, as it’s a “Sporty economy car” but Ford seemed to miss the Memo on RWD.

They did do a lot for Ford in Motorsport and were somewhat popular in their time. They are mainly forgotten though, as they’ve all either rusted away or been destroyed by teenagers in the 90's.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > rctothefuture 11/03/2020 at 12:56

0

Huh, I didn’t know Ford raced them. Neat.

rctothefuture > interstate366, now In The Industry 11/03/2020 at 12:56

1

Notchback or Hatchback? I’m looking to make some bad choices again.

Mondial goes to 11 > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 12:57

0

Too bad the Museum of Driving in El Segu ndo is closed right now due to COVID. It probably won’t open before you finish your project. That’s the only time I’ve been in a Fiero (static). The interior is surprisingly roomy and a bit of an uncanny valley coming from my MR2 Mk1. I quite like the ‘80s-tastic interior (30 years later) but the unified trunk / engine lid is weird. Hard to assess the build quality of what is literally a museum piece.

WiscoProud > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 13:00

0

To be fair, the power-to-displacement of all engines in those days were crap. The Iron Duke was a promising concept, and the Super Duty engines were used extensively in racing. However, the production versions were plagued with quality issues. The best design is worthless if you don’t make it right. 

ibRAD > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 13:51

0

Thanks! I’d found that site pretty easily once I knew what it was.

interstate366, now In The Industry > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/03/2020 at 14:10

1

I work at an auto shop. However, one of my coworkers knows a guy who has one in better shape.

Mark Tucker > ranwhenparked 11/03/2020 at 14:11

2

I agree. GM absolutely nailed the styling of the original Fiero, as well as the original 3rd generation Firebird. Then they improved the mechanicals of them while simultaneously ruining the styling.

I think there was a brief window (‘85-86?) when you could get the original bodystyle with a V6 and a 5 speed, but not a GT.

interstate366, now In The Industry > Chariotoflove 11/03/2020 at 14:14

1

It’s not all bad. A coworker has a friend with a 1986 SE that I’m in the process of making room for. I’m just hesitant to turn a 1988 into a parts car for a non-88.

Chariotoflove > interstate366, now In The Industry 11/03/2020 at 14:15

0

I can see how that would emotionally hard.

Mark Tucker > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 14:16

1

Strongly in favor. My home town’s epicenter was the Pontiac dealership that was owned by the mayor, and I still remember seeing the first Fiero (bright red, of course) through the showroom window. I was 11, and I fell in love with it on sight .

Still love them , and I’ve looked at several over the years, but it’s jus t never been the right time or situation. Someday I’d still love to make it happen.

interstate366, now In The Industry > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 14:16

1

Automatic. I’m in the process of getting a 1986 SE with a 4-speed, just not really thrilled about the idea of making an 88 a parts car for a non-88.

Taylor Martin > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 14:53

0

I mean, Crazy Jimmy won the whole Diecast Racing League in one of those, so can it really be that bad...

Okay... maybe they are actually bad.

koawaft1 > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 15:36

0

My dad had two and drove A L OT . I got his 89 S15 in 93 and it had 215k miles on it...

He went through water pumps quickly could be living in west texas at the time. He explained it as the coolant had to travel much further. 

FastIndy > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 15:53

0

I’ve got a 1984 pace car. I love these things. See below for a brief writeup on a snippet of racing history.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/got-valves-1637910859

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 17:40

0

My thoughts?

Get one with the V6

The 1988 model year is the best one

The early 4 cyl ones had a thing with catching on fire

Was conceived as an economy commuter car and that comes through when you look at the interior.

TRivet > way2blu does a rev update 11/03/2020 at 20:13

0

Here is an article I posted on OPPO regarding the Pontiac Fiero that addresses many of the misconceptions about the car:

https://trivet.kinja.com/americas-most-misunderstood-car-1837032065

RacinBob > way2blu does a rev update 11/12/2020 at 12:28

1

I think we have to separate the car from the company. I think pretty much all GM cars of the era were casually developed, sourced and assembled. I always thought it was better to buy a two year old one as by then the initial owner dealt with the problems and after that they were pretty durable and long lasting. I owned an 82 X-11, a 84 X-11, a ‘94 Transport and today have a ‘07 Uplander. All were bought used and all had decent life experience.

As for the Fiero, I think the one curse that I would call it is that GM does not commit to continuous improvement. When the flaw happen, their development teams are gone and therefore the resources to deal with them. Granted there was a major refresh in ‘88 but at that point the car’s reputation was shot so it was a wasted effort.